☎️ The cold calling master class
Gavin Tice explains how he landed a $200k deal in just one cold call & two meetings.
Thought cold calling was dead? Gavin will bring it back to life before your very ears in this episode.
Try Gavin’s tips today to get that much closer to mastering the ART of selling!
Guest Feature
Gavin began his career as a United States Marine. After serving, he arrived on the sales scene.
Working his way up the ladder as a sales development rep, account executive, sales consultant & channel partner guru at Sander Sales Traning.
Gavin is now helping ConnectAndSell grow & teaching the best cold conversationalist in the world.
What problem does ConnectAndSell solve?
ConnectAndSell takes away the pain and frustration of having to deal with dial-by-name directories, company phone operators, and those executive assistants.
Delivering salespeople right to the decision-maker by pressing one button at a time.
Deal details
What are you selling?
- Sandler Sales Training
Where did the prospect come from?
- Cold outbound into them from his target account list.
Company type
- Small business. 50 employees. A sales team of 5.
Deal size & length
- $200,000 annually
- ~3 months.
Barriers to Overcome
- The owner didn’t want to face the fact that their company was in such a dire situation. Had to present & approach the discussion cautiously, yet directly.
Buyer types
- Users: the sales reps
- Decision Maker: CEO/owner of the company
Episode Highlights
*Note: timestamps correlate with full conversation
Cold calling: Know thy persona, better than you know thyself. (7:44)
Pre-discovery: Banish indecision. Give prospects 1 decision at a time. (11:23)
Barriers: Ask tough questions early. Your sales cycle will thank you. (26:55)
3 Tips to Fellow Account Executives
1. Be gutsy 5 minutes at a time.
Ask tough questions that make even you uncomfortable. It’s called a pain discussion for a reason.
Playing grim reaper is awkward, but prospects will appreciate the honest & ethical approach.
Even if they don’t buy, you’ve helped expose problems that would’ve led to life-altering impacts.
The sales world is built on trust & the only way to build that is through honesty.
2. Always be prepared.
Devote at least 2 hours of prospect research for every 1 hour you’re in front of the prospect.
You never want to be in a situation where you’re asking Google-able questions to a C-Suite exec.
You never have a second chance to make a first impression. And 2nd cracks at a deal are rare.
Get your shit together, know your basics, and set the agenda & direction often.
3. Educate today, sell tomorrow.
Find yourself pitching or a feature dumping in the first 5-10 minutes of the convo…you’re toast.
Buyers only care about themselves & their problems. Not you or your product.
Make a hypothesis, understand their perspectives, ask tough questions, & then provide solutions.
Sales pros need to see themselves as educators first.
Watch the full conversation
Full transcript
Taylor Dahlem
Welcome back to How I Deal, where we discuss past closed one and lost deals, how they played out that way, and deliver some solid sales tips you could use is today. My name is Taylor Dahlem, a full-cycle account executive turned content guy. I'm joined as always by my partner in crime, Junior Lartey. How's it going, man?
Junior Lartey
Great. It's episode five. It's awesome to be exposing some of these single deals and understanding how they were won.
Taylor Dahlem
Yes. Moving fast, I guess at some point we'll stop doing this. But in case you're a first-time listener, brief refresher of how this will go. Each conversation we chat through a past deal, all names, places we want to fictionalize anonymized so essentially allows us to dive deep while not getting anyone in trouble. So we want to know from the first time our sellers saw this prospect either in their CRM or on LinkedIn, all the way to getting that DocuSign completed or wherever that deal is officially inked.
Junior Lartey
Today we've got Gavin Tice, who began his career as a Marine. He arrived on the scene as a sales consultant and channel partner guru and is now helping connect and sell grow Gavin Marine to sales. I'm sure there are some parallels there, but glad you're here.
Gavin Tice
Hey, appreciate it. Happy to be here, gents. Awesome.
Junior Lartey
Gavin, give us some insight into your role and what problems Connect and Sell solves.
Gavin Tice
Yeah. So like my LinkedIn title says, I'm a conductor of conversations. I get to teach the best outbound cold conversationalists in the world, literally. And what does ConnectandSell solve? Well, in a very quick commercial, we take away all the pain and frustration of having to deal with dial by name, directories, company phone operators, and those executive assistants and just delivery right to your decision maker by pressing one button at a time.
Taylor Dahlem
So excited to get the ConnectandSell pitch here soon.
Gavin Tice
Awesome.
Taylor Dahlem
Gavin, let's go ahead and dive in. What deal are you walking us through today?
Gavin Tice
Yeah. So we're going to go back in time when I was with a group with Sandler. So it was actually one of my first deals. If not, I think the first one and it was about a company of fifty employees. The sales team was five, and it was a sizable two hundred thousand dollars or so dollar deal.
Taylor Dahlem
Not bad. Not bad. I guess moving into the past, right? This is your former company, but I'm sure every seller worth their salt understands Sandler and at least the OG of sales training. But given that, we still want to know, how did you research this deal? How did you come across this particular prospect and kick things off?
Gavin Tice
Yeah. So it starts with the monothematic list. So it's a big word for saying you want one list with one ICP customer avatar that, you know, has a pretty credible problem. Right. So you can segment that into a vertical if you'd like. For me, it's pretty simple. We targeted President, CEO, and founders of companies that had sales teams. So I had several lists for a director level, but generally we like to start at the top of the food chain.
Junior Lartey
Would you typically have more success at the top or working bottom up where the directors are more like, I listen to my salespeople on the floor and it's a struggle. Or is it more like the CEO who's like, it seems like we may have a struggle just based on revenue?
Gavin Tice
Yeah, that's a great question. Pretty consistently. This might be tough to hear for some people, but if you start at the bottom, it's hard to get championed up, no matter how great that champion is. In the esoteric world of sales training and long-term reinforced sales training, sometimes the VP of sales or director or the CSO might actually be possibly the problem. What an uncomfortable conversation to have in front of them. Candace the founder and President of the company. So we generally started at the top of the food chain. A lot of times they're busy folks. They tried to kick you down to the BP of sales, and then you'd have to be a little bit gutsy and say, well, Mr. CEO, Mrs. President, what happens if part of the problem is that person? They say, oh, maybe we should talk first. He's like, cool, got them worked five seconds.
Junior Lartey
You're good. I got you in five seconds. And now we can talk. I like that a lot. So prospecting, it seems so simple because you're literally just trying to start a conversation. And we do this every day with people that we know, but we know there's a ton of layers to prospecting. It's not just like this super easy thing to do all the time. So how did you go about getting in front of this prospect? Give us some details to getting the conversation started.
Gavin Tice
Sounds like this. Hey, Junior, this is a sales call. You're welcome to hang up on me. Give me thirty seconds to tell you why I called. And that just kind of how it went. It was all just a straight cold call at the time. Cold calling was not being used at the time. A lot of folks were really having LinkedIn and email and social channels and people were neglecting the phone. So that was the way to come in. And yeah, it worked for me. It's beautiful.
Junior Lartey
Sally, you can correct me if I'm wrong, but I think that's the first on our podcast where we've got a cold call opener to the conversation.
Taylor Dahlem
Yes, that is the inaugural cold call meeting set, which, hilariously, is always kind of the Holy grail of sales. If you can figure out the cold call, you can land the deal. But oddly enough, five episodes, and this is our first no, super refreshing to hear especially when everybody's digging you're sagging. You're going back to the old school, you're going back to the direct approach. It's a lost art, I think, in a very divisive for some reason conversation on LinkedIn where people are like, oh, is cold calling dead? But you're seeing it here. And Gavin is probably one of the fiercest defenders of all but definitely refreshing that that art is still very much intact, I guess. Gavin, it's great to be a sleek, cool tool or kind of the big boy on the block that everyone's buying just because it's new. But those windows are typically pretty rare. At some point, they close entirely. Oftentimes discovery is what breaks it. No matter where you're at as a company or as a brand or as a seller, you can discover if you can uncover that pain, it makes all the difference. So what did that look like with you? What did you learn?
Gavin Tice
Well, let's go back for a second to the cold call. Right. So you deliver this very honest and sincere line, right? Hey, it's a sales call. You're welcome to hang up on me. Give me thirty seconds to tell you why I called. Right. You really kind of installed some credibility there very quickly because I hear it kind of consistently. Sometimes you get asked.
Junior Lartey
Is this a sales call?
Gavin Tice
Sometimes, no. Three minutes later, they're trying to book you for an appointment. Alternative day close. Let's go. So the next part about that is they say you got thirty seconds, okay. And in that world, it used to sound something like this: “Hey, Mrs. CEO, typically when I'm talking to companies like you and people like you, they tell me they've built a great sales team, but they're pretty upset because they're missing, like, a lot of the easy sales that they think they should be. Other times they tell me they're getting those easy sales, but a lot is coming in the funnel, but not a lot is coming out and they're really disappointed. Other times, probably the most common was they would tell us that, you know, hey, I'm really getting frustrated. We're going to start in all these RFP situations. And, you know, I don't know about you, Mrs. CEP, but probably none of this is relevant. But if it was, which part of this would actually kind of sound familiar in your world?” And then they say, “well, that thing about the RFP, that's pretty familiar. It's painful.” “Okay, well, look, I've taken my thirty seconds. Should we keep talking? Well, yeah, we got a couple more minutes. Let's go.” And now it's kind of game on, folks. You want to ask: “Okay, cool. Well, tell me why that one? What about that stings?” And then they dive into some stuff, and I remember, pretty clandestinely, there was a moment where I realized I was late for actual training for myself. I said “hey, listen, I'm so sorry. I've got a meeting. I got to run to when should we go ahead and have a little bit more of a discussion? And she said something like, I don't know, let's do next Tuesday. Tuesday means what? Tuesday afternoon, Tuesday morning.” She gave me a time. I said, “great, here's what's going to happen. We're going to have this conversation. I'm asking you a couple of questions. Naturally, you'll have something for me. At the end of that, we'll decide if it really makes sense for us to go ahead and take a deeper stop, have a deeper dive and really see if we want to maybe build a business relationship together. Does that seem fair?” She said, “yes, that's a fantastic center of the calendar and buy-off we went.”
Junior Lartey
So that cold call was like five to ten-ish minutes, like in that window.
Gavin Tice
Probably about seven minutes.
Junior Lartey
Okay, seven minutes. So it's not like you did full-blown Discovery, but you pushed enough information at her that seemed familiar that she was like, okay, I will book time. And you understand because they came from a list that you had talked about. Name that word again.
Gavin Tice
Monothematic.
Junior Lartey
Monothematic. That's when I got to remember. So you name this list, they came directly from here. Similar problems. And you obviously understood those really well and wrapped it up to a meeting.
Gavin Tice
Yeah. And so I think we were getting ready to go to the Discovery, right?
Taylor Dahlem
Yes, I guess move us into the post-cold call. You're not meeting. Take it from there.
Gavin Tice
Yeah. So I called her up on the agreed day and this was really a good way. It's kind of a pre-discovery, right. So I really said: “Hey, listen, pleasure to talk to you on the phone again. Is the time still good?” She said “yes, I got fifteen minutes.” Fantastic, right? I said, “here's how this kind of goes. I'm looking to learn out a little bit more about your organization and see if there's really some alignment part with this RFP process that seems to be tough. And here's what will happen next. At the end of the fifteen minutes, you're going to make one decision today, right. And it sounds like this a no means, hey, I'll probably ask you for referral, maybe someone in your network that might be able to have a deeper conversation with me. But a yes might look like this. We're going to go ahead and take a small step, right? Maybe I'll go ahead and use something called a divine assessment and take a look at your sales team. Maybe we'll walk right into a full boot camp. Presidents Club and Mastery whole shebang right. I don't know. At this point, I don't even know if I can support you and your company. But are you okay making that comfortable decision today?” She said, “sure, let's go.” And so that's kind of the pre meeting to a Discovery. And then that went well. And I said, look, all right, at the end of that fifteen minutes. I said, “Great, we got two minutes left. Sounds like there's a good fit here. Here's what I want to go ahead and talk about next. Our next meeting. We're going to have a two-hour, probably at a minimum conversation, probably as long as three, depending on what's going on here. I'm going to send you a survey before we meet next, and I want you to take that. That survey might have some things on that are relevant. Go ahead and figure those out. And then from there, we're going to make a decision on that day.” And she said, “Two hours, I guess the longest disco call I've ever heard of.” I said, Listen, one of the greatest Sandler trainers that I've ever heard of, the guy named Al Strauss. Words will forever Echo in that moment. I said, “what kind of a sales wizard would I be if I couldn't close you in two meetings?” And she kind of laughed. I bet you wish your salespeople could do that. She said, I sure do wish I did. I said, “Good. Are we okay with you making a decision on the end of this next call?” She said yes, so that was scheduled, connected, and ready to roll for the next step.
Junior Lartey
Two hours booked for the next one. I love that in that quick like I guess we're calling a pre-Discovery. You're just disqualifying indecision. Right? At the end of this, you're either going to say yes and we're going to have a real conversation or you're going to say no, and ideally give me a referral. So I can imagine maybe some AES and SAS right now are thinking, well, my sales process is a lot longer than that. There are more touch points than that, and that's fine. The lesson here is at the end of your conversation, don't let it die. Don't let it go nowhere. Right. If I'm having a Discovery call and I'm using what Gavin Tice just did where he said pay. At the end of this call, you're going to say yes or you're going to say no. I'm going to do the same thing, except I'm going to say, hey, you're either going to say yes to a demo and we will book a time, or you're going to say no. This is not a good fit, and we'll shake hands as friends, and then I'm going to look through everyone you know in your network and try to get a referral. Right? But just banish indecision. It cannot happen at Discovery. Give me a yes or give me an out.
Gavin Tice
Yeah, and you should be doing that every step of the process, every time you're meeting with the prospect, and it doesn't always have to be like we're going to get married and we're going to go ahead and you're going to buy stuff. It might be perfect. Let's agree that we probably might need to have some more people here. You mentioned SaaS. There's always a lot of like, we're going to have to bring in It and the CFO, and it's like, cool. So if we get to this point at the end of this next conversation and it makes sense to go ahead and actually bring in the It folks, can we at least make that decision today? Sure.
Junior Lartey
Yes. I love that adaptation. Yeah, it's super applicable. So post pre-discovery, mini discovery, whatever you want to call it. What are you doing? You've made some promises at this point and you're saying we're going to meet for two hours. So back up there enjoying this journey.
Gavin Tice
Yeah. There's never a second chance, especially when you've asked for two hours of someone's time. Senior executive leader. If you blow that because you're underprepared, you're in big trouble. Right. And tell me the executive who's like, boy, you're really over prepared for this meeting. I can't believe this is going to go well. Right. So I was always taught, at least by the Sandler world, that I should spend two hours in research for every hour I'm going to spend in front of a prospect. So he's this. If you can find the answer out on Google, you should probably not ask the prospect that question. Right. Why?
Junior Lartey
Okay, tell us why. I agree with you, but give me a why.
Gavin Tice
Well, let's be honest. Most people are asking for maybe thirty, forty-five minutes in front of a busy executive. You've got one chance to really show them that you are really a subject matter expert and that you know what you're doing if you ask them a really dumb question. That's like flat face on their website. Like, oh, how many employees do you have? Like, great LinkedIn search buddy. Got another good question. Where are you located that just shows. Like, you're winging it.
Taylor Dahlem
You're just checking boxes.
Gavin Tice
Right.
Taylor Dahlem
At that point.
Gavin Tice
Firstly, some of these solutions are money, big money. And if you can't even show me that you've done your research on my company, like, why am I going to trust a lot of money with you? It's like that first time you're going to, I don't know, meet a date or something. You don't go in there looking like you did three days ago. Let's be real. Right? You go in there looking pretty sharp. Yeah. So what happened in that time? I do a lot of pre-call planning. Right. So I want to figure out what the objective of that whole conversation is going to be. Maybe I won't sell them a boot camp. Maybe I won't get them as a long term customer. Maybe it's just selling them something. Right. But my objective is to get them to make a decision each and every time. It may not be the one I want, but I need them to make a decision. No, think it over here. Right. Second, I'm thinking about the questions they're going to ask me and how I'm going to actually answer those based on your experience. You know, a lot of the questions sound like. Right. On that same instance, I'm thinking about the questions I'm going to ask them and why. Right. And a lot of the time I'm asking some questions like I'm digging into people call it pain, but using the pain funnel is a very powerful thing if you understand how to do it correctly and to make it not sound like the Inquisition. Right. That's a problem. So that's what I'm doing. I'm preparing my questions. I'm going to ask them what I think they're going to ask me and where I'm going to take it from there, man. Always good.
Taylor Dahlem
So where's it go from here? You're doing your research for every one hour. You're doing two hours of research. Anything, in particular, happened during that two-hour meeting or meetings afterward that ultimately led to kind of the next steps, right. Getting closer to that close.
Gavin Tice
At the end of the day, you're again, an upfront contract at the beginning of that meeting. Right. Hey, really glad you're here. Any new fires that you're going to have to put out that's going to dampen these two hours? And you might want to say, look, we might not even need the whole time. Right. I might be able to give you back some time in your day, and then it's really just kind of setting the scene, kind of putting in a future state. And, hey, here's where I think we can go. Hopefully that sounds good to you. Obviously, you've got questions for me. Probably like how much does this thing cost and how long is this going to take? And what's the ROI? Naturally, I've got questions for you. How does your company make decisions? Right. How invested are you in moving your sales process along? Right. And so you give them a little taste of that, and then you kind of once again, hey, we agreed upon this at the end of today. Are you still okay with making a decision one way or another? Good, bad, and indifferent. Only thing I can't take is to think it over because they've been thinking it over anyway. Right. They've done their research. They've been up at in the middle of night. What is this Sandler Wizard going to do to me? Like, whatever. So usually they say, yes, we're good to go. I think, great. I stole this from another sand or trainer, Carlos Carrito or maybe his brother Antonio. Shall we get down to business? Right. And then comes a very beautifully choreographed number of questions that I'm really digging into things. But you see, I gave them a survey, and the most beautiful thing is they gave it to me back. So I've got this survey built on some really interesting foundations in the Sandler system, and it really helps you to make sure that you're only talking about those things that matter to that person in that moment. Hey, you fix these things. Which one of them should we start with? Right? And I said, oh, why that one? Tell me, how long has been a problem? What have you tried to do to fix that? You're really building some depth there. And then at some point in time, it's kind of a good time to do a thermometer check. And you're like, all right, Junior, what I'm getting in the sense here is this might be a little bit of a struggle. Definitely going to be a long term thing. Most of our customers started about ten grand and go all the way up into the millions. Is that going to be a problem, or are we still in the same ballpark? It's a good thermometer check, because at that point, if they don't have ten grand, it's probably not worth having a continued discussion. Those kinds of questions are peppered in there, not always with budget. And then there's no great moment of a close, right? You've been closing them the whole time. Tell me why this is a problem. You're getting it in their words. They're telling you how much money things cost. One of my favorite says, well, round numbers, what's this cost you? And they say, I don't know what’s your gut tell you a lot means, I don't know, probably at least a million dollars. And you're like, oh, is that a lot of money? Yeah, it's a lot of money. And like, you're drawing this out of them because at the end, at some point, you're going to say, Taylor, what do you think we should do? This is a mess. You don't sound too upset about it. I butchered all of this, this first meeting. I can now look back and teach everyone how to do this the proper way. But I probably stumbled all over the place.
Taylor Dahlem
Folks, the revisionist history over here.
Gavin Tice
I had all the pieces in here. It just doesn't sound as great as I'm delivering it today. Maybe, I don't know, probably sucks. But at that moment, if you've done what you've done, well, they're sitting there thinking like, man, this person. I know what this is going to cost. Now. I know what it's costing me not to do anything. The status quo is not working. And here's the opportunity. And by now, you've shown this person you're really consultative. You've asked incredible questions that probably no one else asked them, and now it's decision time. Hey, what should we do? This is a mess. It's sounds too upset about it. I guess we should just part ways. No. And it was beautiful. The next part was, let's start with these assessments. And you're like, Great idea. Let's do the assessments. I'm not going to charge you for the people who aren't going to be able to go to boot camp. So I've already put it in their mind they're going to boot camp and then it's just taking that next step. But there's not really a demo. It's not really a big close moment. You've closed them the entire time you've asked them. Nice old-school, thermometer check questions. You constantly said, well, maybe this doesn't upset you enough. You don't sound disappointed in these results. Sounds like you're okay to doing the same thing. Like, why change today? And if you're getting those right, they're telling you, no, this is not cool. I am upset. This is my upset face. You're like that'll look really upset.
Junior Lartey
You're hoping for something a little more.
Gavin Tice
Yeah. So that's what it all comes down to, right? So that's kind of that one thing. And then the deal is closed. You already told them they were going to close the deal. They knew ahead. No one's confused. They don't know what's going to happen next. And ultimately, I was talking to people who could write a check or tell the CFO to give it so I didn't even have to chase money.
Taylor Dahlem
Makes sense. It's not the traditional well, in the sense of kind of how a lot of these SaaS sales cycles or the very product-driven sales cycles are. Like you said, you're closing along the way. Any other major barriers or maybe even other deals like that you've navigated that might have come up throughout that cycle, obviously hit price and budget. But what other major barriers maybe did you have to overcome here or another deal?
Gavin Tice
It's really hard to talk to people about their businesses that maybe they're very passionate about.
Taylor Dahlem
Yeah. You're having a kind of a grim reaper discussion, right?
Gavin Tice
I mean, there's no way to say it. It's called a pain discussion for a reason. The best way I can tell you is we all go to the doctor and we feel really healthy. You're like, tip-top. You're like, I just got done running a marathon. I feel great. You go to the doctor for your annual you feel amazing. You walk out of that puppy, you've got like a prescription in order to do some diagnostics. And they're like, well, it's probably nothing. But there's some other things I really want to dive into. If you're ethical and you can truly help someone, you can take someone who doesn't even know they have a problem and get them understanding. Like, I didn't even realize this was my situation and my company situation always being ethical. So it's tough and you have to be gutsy enough to ask really tough, ask questions. I think they get the pain stuff wrong because they ask the kind of surface-level challenges. What are your daily challenges and what keeps you up at night, right? Like, come on. The reality is you have to find out what's behind that. How much money have you lost? Like what's discounting in your sales or accounting you really costing you? Let's do the math. And then sometimes it's personal. So if you're telling me, let's make this up. Companies losing three million dollars a year for the last three years, that's pretty sizable. I guess you must be independently wealthy. It's not a problem. No, not independently wealthy. All right. Did you guys make all your bonuses last year? Well, I gave the company then, but I didn't take one. Oh, interesting. What were you planning on doing with that? I was going to buy a new boat, a new house. Who cares, right? Oh, well, no big deal, right? No, I wanted that to all these things. There's personal pain that also is attached to them. Sometimes you can't take the kids to Disney, can't go on the trips you want, whatever. So you want to really get consultative in your sales, you've got to ask really tough. You should physically be flinching when you ask them, just not in front of them.
Junior Lartey
Like some internal heat. Like you yourself are a bit uncomfortable asking the questions I'm going to ask.
Gavin Tice
Yeah. Every time I made a cold call when I was in that world and I'd ask for the meeting, I'd flinch and then hold the phone away from me. Only on speaker or the few times I actually had because it was the time of covet, like the real-time we couldn't be together. So I was doing a discovery over the phone and I told the guy to strap and I said, hey, man, put on your seatbelt. I'm going to tell you how much I think this is going to cost to fix this problem. Oh, yeah? I said, no. Nascar race car, like six belts. It's like, oh, okay. I told him, it's probably, I don't know, two hundred and thirty-eight thousand dollars to fix this. I think I flinched, held that phone away and wait for him to be like, what's up? I got it. But it was a battle. I didn't win that one. Right. I didn't win that one. But, man, you know, you should ask uncomfortable questions, okay.
Junior Lartey
At this stage, hit us with three things any sales pro can do to inch closer to close one on some of the deals they're working today.
Gavin Tice
Yeah, for sure. Be gutsy. Five seconds at a time, right? Always be prepared. Maybe you don't need a full hour for every two hours, for every hour you're going to be in front of your prospect. I'm going to tell you you do. But whatever. Be very prepared. And what would be a third one? Shoot, I've got so many of them. Right. Sell today, educate tomorrow. All right. Quit trying to sell all the stuff immediately. Get the meeting, and then educate them the hell out of them next time you see them. There you go. My top three.
Junior Lartey
Nice. It was great having you. If you tuned in today, go connect with Gavin on LinkedIn. He's around. I see him commenting all the time. He's putting out some really great sales tips. Obviously, as you've heard from today he is a Sandler expert.
Gavin Tice
Calling me a Sandler expert, man. You guys might get me lit on fire for that.
Taylor Dahlem
Yes, Gavin. Thank you for joining us as always. And just like that, another episode of how ideal is in the books. If you're listening to this on Apple Spotify, Apple Spotify, wherever, give us a review. Five stars if you will. But either way thanks for tuning in and we will see you next time.
